[e-gold-list] RE: e-gold Mentioned

Sat Dec 9 00:07:02 MST 2006

Hey Craig,

is it me or does the guy sound like he is parroting misinterpretations from
people who have no clue themselves? There are many sloppy remarks that
suggest that he has no understanding or knowledge of historical facts,
geography, traditions, among others.

Points in case:
(1) "Furthermore, terrorist organizations may smuggle gold for profit.
Smuggling gold is lucrative because certain countries, such as India and
Pakistan, have a high demand for gold and legal imports are heavily taxed."

This would mean that terrorists then have the national currency in hand,
which they can't use abroad. Even at a potentially substantial profit this
wouldn't make much sense. However, as far as I know, these profits wouldn't
be substantial enough, because if terrorists did this, they would be new
entrants into a well established black market of century old smuggler
traditions.
Thus, a new kid on the block would enter and not earn much. Where is the
sense in that?

(2) "certain areas of Asia, North Africa and the Middle East, where there is
no traditional banking system and money transfer is done through the Hawala"

Hawala IS THE traditional banking system. Invented by Phoenicians some 3,000
years ago and then introduced by Jewish immigrants into Europe. More modern
ways of banking were then being implemented by the Knights Templar much
later (and guess where they got the idea?), but the first formal banking in
the West probably originated in Venice and Genoa - both of which traded
heavily with the Middle East. Doh!

(3)  gold is often used by Hawala brokers to balance their books. Hawala
dealers very frequently place gold, rather than currency, around the
continents.

Cause and effect issues? Yes, Hawala brokers tend to use gold to balance
their books between each other. However, they do this by putting a sticker
on a gold bar, not by shipping the bars back and forth. The reason they are
using gold for this is simply because their customers are taking currency
out of the network at one end while putting in a different currency at the
other, creating potential currency loss risks due to exchange rates for the
receiving Hawaladar, but not for the one who is doing the payout. This then
means that the one who does the payout is actually owed an equivalent amount
by the one who now holds a different currency. To spread the risk between
both parties, the second one 'loans' the first an equal amount in gold, but
the gold never really changes hands.
Nothing sinister there, just accounting based on centuries of tradition and
mutual trust networks.

(4) This is particularly evident in the oil producing region of the Emirates

The Emirates are part of the oil producing region, not the other way around.
The Emirates also expect to be running out of oil within the next 15 years,
which is why they reverted to free trade as the basis of their wealth, which
is what they had been doing for centuries before oil was an issue. That is
why their dependency of revenue from the sale of oil has been dropping
continuously since the late 1960s and now stands at a mere 18% of GNP. It is
expected that by 2012 the Emirates will treat oil revenue as an unimportant
sideline of the economy, amounting to low single-digit contributions to a
GNP that has been growing close to double digit for 15 years running (most
notably that growth continued and even accelerated during the cheap oil
years).

(5) Many Hawala centres have been discovered and shut down since September
2001

This suggests that Hawaladars are doing something illegal or improper. While
the US shut down a few with questionable pretexts and dodgy charges, none of
them has as yet been convicted of anything to the best of my knowledge. I
wonder why Citibank is still operating, considering that one of the assumed
hijackers had an account there - which clearly proves that Citibank actively
engaged in the financing of terrorism, or does it?

(6) the call of Islamic fundamentalists to re-introduce the gold coin as
official trading currency in all Muslim countries and territories, just like
during the Great Caliphate, when the Gold Dinar was the currency in
circulation throughout the Ottoman Empire.

This is a whole mine of nonsense:
The call to reintroduce the gold coin is based on sound fiscal thinking and
a realization that people using the USD for everything are not only being
ripped off but are also at the mercy of the self-proclaimed 'owner' of all
dollar bills and electronic dollar blips. I'm not a fundamentalist, nor a
Muslim, yet I have been preaching the same thing for years.
The Caliphate appeared about 800 years before the Ottoman Empire.
The Ottoman Empire used mixed media coins of inferior quality. So inferior
in fact that traders in the Middle East reverted to using Austrian
Maria-Teresia Silver Thalers as main store of value and for trade for
several years. Something the Spanish crown tried to cash in on when they
begann minting huge amounts of superior silver coins in Mexico and used them
for trading in the Far East from the Philippines, which in turn lead to the
US introduction Silver Trade Dollars of slightly heavier weight. Nothing to
do with Muslims, and likely evidence that the author has no clue about the
difference between one Muslim Empire and another. Between the first
Caliphate and the the second Caliphate (which was about two third of the
size of the first), there were two in-Muslim wars against each other, the
Ottoman Empire grew from a Palace revolution of the Third Caliphate, and the
Janissaries immideatly proceeded to take all gold coins out of circulation
and introduce a new Silver coin, while taking the old silvber Dirhams also
out of circulation and issuing a copper replacement.

(7) only a few months ago the Islamic state of Kelantan (Malaysia)
introduced the gold dinar coin as currency of the country.

How can a state introduce a currecy of the country? The Gold Dinar coin has
been introduced seven years ago by then PM Mahatir Mohammad. The currency of
Malaysia is the Ringgit. Gold Dinars can be used as a means of exchange
(just like Gold Eagles), but as the coins have a large mark-up (just like
gold eagles), they are not widely held, and more importantly, they are NOT
legal tender.

What the moron most probably is referring to is a conference in Kuala Lumpur
with subsequent visiting of Langkawi Island (technically a Federal Territory
and Freeport, but in the vincinity of Kelantan), and the declaration that
Muslim countries (others are invited to join, China and Russia signalled
that they will do just that) will move towards using the Gold Dinar as a
means of exchange, in order to NET OUT CROSS BORDER TRADE on a regualr
basis. This was two years ago, and spawned the formation of the Islamic Bank
of International Gold Settlements in Kuala Lumpur, earlier this year.

Kelantan's state opposition (they lost control of the state government three
years ago) has been calling for coin to be used in day to day affairs as
well, but Bank Negara has declared it impractical and that was the end of
it - unfortunately. There is some movement to back the Ringgit by gold, but
that would probably be decades away, as the local government depends on
inflation to pay its bills and finance growing budget shortfalls.

(8) The establishment of a Pan-Islamic economic area, based on a new Gold
Dinar as international trading currency is the very future at which
fundamental Islam aims both to ensure that fluctuations in US Dollar do not
affect international trade, oil exports in particular, and to impose Muslim
economic power over the Western countries.

Nope. It's reason, logic and the ability to conduct basic arithmatic and
algebra (which they invented by the way), that aims to ensure that
fluctuations in US Dollar do not affect international trade, FOOD IMPORTS in
particular.

It is utterly unthinkable that Muslims countries could in fact agree on
anything long enough to impose anything on anyone. It is just that more and
more countries are fed up with the imposition of US economic power on the
rest of the planet, and that these countries are looking for a way out.
China wouldn't give it a second thought before moving tanks into Muslim
areas (they got 100 million Muslims) if it was in their economic interest
and/or of the Muslims there were becoming political. I'm fairly certain that
Putin would do the same with the 20-odd million Muslims there. But the fact
that they both have large Muslim minorities bought them a seat at the table
and observer status from the onset.
For the record, Germany attended as well, as did Austria and Switzerland.

Cheers,
Robert.

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Because Reputation Counts

123abc
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